Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Cerita pasal bahasa & kebudayaan kaum KadazanDusun dan Murut, Unduk Ngadau, Kaamatan dan sebagainya.

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Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:59 pm

The cultured of Kadazan Dusun Murut (KDM) very similar to Bunun race of Taiwan....
Just look at their culture and harvest song, as well as the dancing style, and also see their clothing fashion....
I can say it is atmost 90% simlar.

And there is place at Taiwan named Alisan (a mountain), and the word "Alisan" possible mean "Kadazan"
and if it is true then it might be KDM are originated from the place of Alisan at Taiwan.

During the old days, because the transporation services very lousy (didn't have Airasia), so it is very hard for either Bunun race copying the KDM culture, or KDM race copying the Bunun race culture, and it is also very hard for each of them known the existence of other race in the earth....

But after I see the similar cultured both races (BUNUN and DUSUN) look atmost the same....
I guess there might be strong connection between DUSUN/KADAZAN with this BUNUN race (CHINA)

What do you think?



Look at the youtube video below:
Look at BUNUN dancing style and their clothing: Atmost 99% similar to KDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f2ZpZkfaUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIt5f9SIVJA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9M2ZHMg82Q&feature=related



Girl of Alisan: (May be "Alisan" mean "Kadazan")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAuEOVTS2hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2EhJXx7Tp4



Harvest Song by Bunun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9M2ZHMg82Q&feature=related
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby Joshua » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:14 pm

I was told by a Kadazan doctor friend who went to mainland china for holidays,

they came across a community doing the similar things like KDM doing in Sabah..in the culture, dressing, songs, dancing...


so what is what?

where to where?

when to when?

How to how?
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby fikir2 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:33 pm

Joshua wrote:I was told by a Kadazan doctor friend who went to mainland china for holidays,

they came across a community doing the similar things like KDM doing in Sabah..in the culture, dressing, songs, dancing...


so what is what?

where to where?

when to when?

How to how?


So itu Yong Teck Lee ada keturunan KDM lah ni joshua
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby Sepilok » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:32 pm

mdes320 wrote:The cultured of Kadazan Dusun Murut (KDM) very similar to Bunun race of Taiwan....
Just look at their culture and harvest song, as well as the dancing style, and also see their clothing fashion....
I can say it is atmost 90% simlar.

And there is place at Taiwan named Alisan (a mountain), and the word "Alisan" possible mean "Kadazan"
and if it is true then it might be KDM are originated from the place of Alisan at Taiwan.

During the old days, because the transporation services very lousy (didn't have Airasia), so it is very hard for either Bunun race copying the KDM culture, or KDM race copying the Bunun race culture, and it is also very hard for each of them known the existence of other race in the earth....

But after I see the similar cultured both races (BUNUN and DUSUN) look atmost the same....
I guess there might be strong connection between DUSUN/KADAZAN with this BUNUN race (CHINA)

What do you think?


It depends on what time frame you are talking about and where you are from.
Most people in SE Asia are Austronesian, with the exceptions of the Orang Asli in Peninisular who are Australo-Melanesian. Some Indonesian scholars believe that the Austronesian people originated from modern day Indonesia, and the Philippines. However most Western scholars think the Austronesian peoples originated in the island of Taiwan, and spread as far away as Madagascar in the Indian Ocean, Easter Island, the Maritime Southeast Asia, New Zealand, and to the rest of the Pacific Islands.

So according to the Western scholars - the Malays, KDM, Ibans, Pinoys, Indons etc. - all came from Taiwan somewhere betwen 5000-2500 B.C.
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby tiwas » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:06 am

ai? ini pun kira politik ka ni?
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby sarayoh » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:23 am

tiwas wrote:ai? ini pun kira politik ka ni?


he he silap sdh tmpt post ni topik....

jgn risau...mngikut kwn sia, sejarah asal usul suku kaum dusun ada di perpustakaan negara luar trmasuk di hongkong n china, hasil tulisan org2 dulu kunun...

ada usaha utk menulis sjrah ni dlm BM, mukin tdk lama lagi....klu tdk silap sia, hj. dr. muhidin sdg menyiapkan penulisan asal usul suku kaum dusun di sabah...mukin sdh ada tulisan org lain tapi masi blum kta dpt baca, sia pn mau beli buku ni klu ada....
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:43 am

Joshua wrote:I was told by a Kadazan doctor friend who went to mainland china for holidays,

they came across a community doing the similar things like KDM doing in Sabah..in the culture, dressing, songs, dancing...


so what is what?
Bunun is dusun, Alisan is Kadazan (my guessing :lol2: )

where to where?
Taiwan to Borneo....

when to when?
Don't know :hmmm: Should be longer than 100 years...


How to how?
Also don't know.... :alright:
May be Airbus know...?? :slaugh:

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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:46 am

fikir2 wrote:
So itu Yong Teck Lee ada keturunan KDM lah ni joshua


Really? that's is good news huh...
Better let TrueSonOfSoul know, so that he will support SAPP... :slaugh:
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:54 am

Sepilok wrote:
It depends on what time frame you are talking about and where you are from.
Most people in SE Asia are Austronesian, with the exceptions of the Orang Asli in Peninisular who are Australo-Melanesian. Some Indonesian scholars believe that the Austronesian people originated from modern day Indonesia, and the Philippines. However most Western scholars think the Austronesian peoples originated in the island of Taiwan, and spread as far away as Madagascar in the Indian Ocean, Easter Island, the Maritime Southeast Asia, New Zealand, and to the rest of the Pacific Islands.

So according to the Western scholars - the Malays, KDM, Ibans, Pinoys, Indons etc. - all came from Taiwan somewhere betwen 5000-2500 B.C.


Really? but there is no similarity between Malays, Indons, Pinoys with Taiwanese today....
At least we don't see wayang kulit, wau, gasing, Baju Kurung, Batik, Keris, Nasi Lemak, and etc (Malay culture) existed in Taiwan today...

Unlike KDM, the Harvest culture are atmost like DUPLICATE or near DUPLICATE by the Taiwanese race (Bunun), very Obvious!
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:59 am

tiwas wrote:ai? ini pun kira politik ka ni?


Can say politik also....

Because if proof that KDM is part of Chinese culture, and if KDM is one of division of orang CINA, then it will be a booster for orang cina and KDM united together to kick out UMNO and return back our Sabah autonomy..

Itu pun politik juga mah kan..? hehe :lol2: :clap2:
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby liang » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:10 am

sarayoh wrote:
tiwas wrote:ai? ini pun kira politik ka ni?


he he silap sdh tmpt post ni topik....

jgn risau...mngikut kwn sia, sejarah asal usul suku kaum dusun ada di perpustakaan negara luar trmasuk di hongkong n china, hasil tulisan org2 dulu kunun...

ada usaha utk menulis sjrah ni dlm BM, mukin tdk lama lagi....klu tdk silap sia, hj. dr. muhidin sdg menyiapkan penulisan asal usul suku kaum dusun di sabah...mukin sdh ada tulisan org lain tapi masi blum kta dpt baca, sia pn mau beli buku ni klu ada....


I hope the writing is not write for self-interest, normaly dr. muhidin will have his own view. What he write will lead to a his perception. And it's also not easy to write it, require a lot of fact, that cannot contradict to others book writing.. else it will become fake history..
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby Faith » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:36 pm

I'm moving this topic to Tourism. Art & Culture - KadazanDusun & Murut.
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby bushido » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:01 pm

Kadazan & Dusun adalah tergolong dalam subgroup Astronesian. Terdapat 351 million manusia adalah berbahasa Austronesian dan 351 juta ini adalah bukan di China tetapi di kawasan Australia, Nusantara, Philipine sehingga ke gugusan Hawai. Sila rujuk bahasa Asutonesian dalam link di bawah:
Autronesian Group Language
http://www.zompist.com/anes.htm

Sila lihat group bahasa yang wujud persamaan di bawah:
http://www.zompist.com/numbers.shtml

Manakala Bunun adalah kelompok Austronesian juga dan malang sekali kerana di China Austronesia adalah sangat minoriti. Besar kemungkinan Kelompok Austonesian di Taiwan adalah serpihan2 dari Austronesian dari Nusantara.

Adalah mustahil 351 juta penduduk dunia yang dari kelompok Austronesian ini berasal dari China sedangkan kelompok Austronesian di China sangatlah sedikit.
[img]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... guages.png[/img]

Kalau mereka adalah minoriti di sana, apakah kemungkinan mereka ini sebenarnya berasal dari gugusan Austonesian di Nusantara? Kalau tidak demikian bermakna 351 juta Asutronesian di Australia, Indonesia, Malaya, Borneo, Philipin, hawai dan gugusan sekitarnya adalah berasal dari China iaitu berasal dari Minoriti Bunun di Taiwan? Persoalannya kenapa Bunun sedikit sedangkan mereka adalah asal? Saya rasa masih lagi dalam persoalan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunun_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosan_languages
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby mdes320 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:07 am

bushido wrote:Kalau mereka adalah minoriti di sana, apakah kemungkinan mereka ini sebenarnya berasal dari gugusan Austonesian di Nusantara? Kalau tidak demikian bermakna 351 juta Asutronesian di Australia, Indonesia, Malaya, Borneo, Philipin, hawai dan gugusan sekitarnya adalah berasal dari China iaitu berasal dari Minoriti Bunun di Taiwan? Persoalannya kenapa Bunun sedikit sedangkan mereka adalah asal? Saya rasa masih lagi dalam persoalan.


Tidak semestinya tempat yang berasal itu mestilah yang ada penduduk majority, dan tempat yang mereka menghijrah ke luar itu mestilah yang minority, misalnya kita boleh ambil bangsa Jews sebagai example, mereka berasal dari Jerussalam Gaza (Israel hari ini), beribu-ribu tahun sudah mereka kena halau keluar dari tempat asal mereka, jadi mereka lah yang minority di tempat asal mereka, tempat lain yg mereka menghijrah ke luar lagi banyak. ( I mean sebelum mereka kembali ke tempat asal mereka hari ini.)

Kita tidak tau scenario sebenar antara KDM dgn Bunun, tapi untuk perbincangan lebih fokus kepada KDM dgn Bunun, kita boleh mengabaikan kaitan antara Australian, Malayan, Philipin, Hawai dgn Bunun di Taiwan ini, sebab tiada persamaan kita nampak yg mereka ada, dari segi kebudayaan, pakaian hitam dan pesta menuai perayaan. Untuk menyempitkan penyelidikan kita, marilah kita cuma fokus kepada KDM dan Bunun Taiwan sahaja.

Soalan sekarang, siapa yang asas dan siapa yg berhijrah? Bunun boleh berhijrah ke Borneo jadi KDM today, begitu juga KDM pun boleh berhijrah ke Taiwan dan menjadi Bunun today.

Kalau kamu tanya saya soalan di atas, saya lebih percaya Bunun yang asas, yg berhijrah ke Borneo, lepas tu membentuk bangsa KDM hari ini.
Alasan saya ialah, Bunun adalah orang cina taiwan, dan orang cina dari 1 - 2 ribu tahun dahulu sudah ada kemahiran membina Kapal, mereka mampu berlayar dan merentasi lautan besar seperti Laut China Selatan (Misalnya Cheng Ho). Manakala kita tiada bukti rekok yg menunjukkan KDM ada kemahiran membina Kapal besar pada zaman dulu. Kalau ada pun tiada catitan bukti bahawa KDM pernah berlayar ke dunia lain.

Tambahan pula, Borneo ialah Benua yang ISOLATED dikelilingi oleh laut, cuma jalan laut sahaja yg boleh masuk dan keluar mendarat di sini. Unlike Semenanjung Malaya, orang sana boleh berjalan kaki melalui Thailand, Vietnam, masuk China atau sebaliknya. Di sini hanya Jalan Laut 1 cara saja.
Oleh itu, sesiapa yg ada Kapal, dia lah yg boleh datang ke sini.
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Re: Is Kadazan Dusun race originated from CHINA Taiwan?

Postby Sepilok » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:33 am

mdes320 wrote:Really? but there is no similarity between Malays, Indons, Pinoys with Taiwanese today....
At least we don't see wayang kulit, wau, gasing, Baju Kurung, Batik, Keris, Nasi Lemak, and etc (Malay culture) existed in Taiwan today...

Unlike KDM, the Harvest culture are atmost like DUPLICATE or near DUPLICATE by the Taiwanese race (Bunun), very Obvious!


Malays and Indon - culture has been strongly influenced by other cultures Indian/arab etc. Wayang Kulit and the Keris are of Indian origin, while the roots of Batik can be traced back to the Eygtians.

What aspects of KDM culture are similar to Bunun culture. Do the KDM have an Ear festival?

But the main problem with your idea is when you came to compare the lanugages - both are from the Austronesian language family -as the people share come origin. But the Bunun lanugage is of the Formosan branch, whilst the KDM languages are of the Malayo-Polynesian branch. Kadazan belongs to a sub-branch of Malayo-Polynesian language the Outer Hesperonesian group - while Malay and Iban belong to the Inner Hesperonesian group.
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