BUGIS III???

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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby encik kacang » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:06 am

airbus320 wrote:Err...Malay is essentially nowdays anyone who is muslim...nothing to do with bugis, bajau or suluk or "west malaysian."

Don't think you can exclusively separate a malay from a bugis...because there is no such thing.


nevermind..because in indonesia.. bugis is not malay...because they says the real malay in sumatera.... i dont know why???...i post that from 1 of malay blog in indonesia... so i wonder y bugis not called as malay in indonesia.. :hmmm:
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby azworld » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:39 am

bugis d semenanjung>>>> MELAYU... :thumbup1:
bugis d sabah>>>> BUKAN MELAYU... :slaugh:
mana silapnya.... :hmmm:
ikut sejarah...asal sama2 dari indon... :slaugh:


betul kn kalau aku silap.... :lol2:
sentiasa menambah kebaikan...
berusaha mengurangkan kesilapan...
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:24 am

satsuma wrote:
airbus320 wrote:Err...Malay is essentially nowdays anyone who is muslim...nothing to do with bugis, bajau or suluk or "west malaysian."

Don't think you can exclusively separate a malay from a bugis...because there is no such thing.


nevermind..because in indonesia.. bugis is not malay...because they says the real malay in sumatera.... i dont know why???...i post that from 1 of malay blog in indonesia... so i wonder y bugis not called as malay in indonesia.. :hmmm:


I think the issue behind the "malay" identity is a confusing one BUT we have to remember why people don't like to be associated with being called a bugis, or bajau or suluk, etc. In the past (we are talking about in the 1980's when we had a terrible problem with pirates between Zambonga and Sandakan where boats and kumpits used to get raided by pirates in Mindanao) people always associated piracy, and crime with suluk and bugis so I am not surprised if people are very hesitant to be compared to them.

Plus, I think everyone likes to look at their ancestorial history..bruneians are proud of the fact they have a Sultan and a monarchy and a language they can call their own, traditions of their own and so forth but know they are very much a part of Sabah's culture, heritage and community.

As far as Indonesians are concerned, my understanding (since I do go to Indonesian often and do communicate with friends there often), there are so many different cultures within the indonesian community, bugis is just one of them.

As I said, the term bumiputera vs melayu vs the different cultures and races within the term malay can be defined in so many different ways...:)

Anyways, I don't like using blogs are references as more often than not, the authors merely state personal opinions rather than stated facts (or with references to historians of merit or to scholars who are credible) so..always important to know who is writing the blog, what is his purpose and what are his intentions. More often than not, the opinion may not always be factual or correct.....most of the time laaa..:)
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:33 am

azworld wrote:bugis d semenanjung>>>> MELAYU... :thumbup1:
bugis d sabah>>>> BUKAN MELAYU... :slaugh:
mana silapnya.... :hmmm:
ikut sejarah...asal sama2 dari indon... :slaugh:


betul kn kalau aku silap.... :lol2:


Tu la, confuse betul kan? :)

How do you define a malay now days? Badawi is half "malay" and half chinese; Mahathir was half mamak and half "malay." So, who really is the true "son of the soil?"

The fact remains, in Malaysia, as long as you are muslim, you qualify for bumi status which essentially means you are a malay.
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby encik kacang » Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:07 pm

betul :lol2: yang penting islam... :lol2:
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby LordArtaxerxes » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:48 pm

ho ho..
siuk baca ni topik..
Tapi,ada saya mo tanya bah..
Bugis Semenanjung bila masa kna ikhtiraf melayu?
ada ka?As I know,Jawa,bugis or whatsoever are still not consider as melayu(sorry to say this,no ofence).
Bugis as malaysian ada la..Tapi bukan melayu.Bugis tetap jg bugis..


-Just pointing out my opinion.Critics are wellcome
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:57 pm

LordArtaxerxes wrote:ho ho..
siuk baca ni topik..
Tapi,ada saya mo tanya bah..
Bugis Semenanjung bila masa kna ikhtiraf melayu?
ada ka?As I know,Jawa,bugis or whatsoever are still not consider as melayu(sorry to say this,no ofence).
Bugis as malaysian ada la..Tapi bukan melayu.Bugis tetap jg bugis..


-Just pointing out my opinion.Critics are wellcome


According to UMNO, if you're muslim and you have malaysian citizenship, you are "malay."

Based on that, doesn't matter kalau urang tu bugis, bajau, suluk kah....sudah kira wakil "melayu."

I think the word malay is similar to kadazan which is actually supposed to represent dusun's, sino and murut (but muruts did not agree with tun fuad stephens definition and insisted murut be separate from dusun and "sino.").

It all comes down to politics really I think. The more "malays" under the UMNO umbrella means more votes and special rights under the constitution.

Ask a west malaysian if he is jawa, or bugis and he will probably not be able to answer you because we are talking about generations and generations of "malay" who have settled in West Malaysia over 500-1000 years unlike Sabah where, the issue is very different...with a huge 1st generation and 2nd generation influx of bugis, bajau and suluk (indonesian, pakistani, etc etc) "malays" who suddenly not only class themselves as "malay" but are also eligible to now vote in the elections for UMNO.
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby encik kacang » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:02 pm

untuk jawapan itu sa selitkan ini..

Bani Jawi adalah nama yang digelarkan oleh orang Arab silam terhadap orang Melayu. Cuma Melayu itu dapat dibahagikan kepada dua kelompok, iaitu Melayu-Proto (keturunan Heth bin Kanaan bin Ham bin Nuh a.s.) dan Melayu-Deutro (keturunan Ibrahim a.s. dari isterinya Keturah).

Orang Melayu Muslim lebih gemar dipanggil Melayu Jawi, Orang Jawi atau Bani Jawi. Suku etnik Melayu termasuklah Acheh, Mendailing, Melayu Deli, Minangkabau, Kerinchi, Riau, Palembang, Sunda, Melayu Bugis (Makasar), Jawa, Melayu Sulu, Melayu Maluku, Banjar, Melayu Campa (Kemboja) dan lain-lain. Melayu kini seolah-olah sinonim dengan Islam, ini mungkin kerana sejak zaman berzaman bangsa Melayu terkenal sebagai bangsa monotheist (percaya pada keesaan Allah – Sang Hyang Tunggal atau Dewata Mulia Raya
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:21 pm

satsuma wrote:untuk jawapan itu sa selitkan ini..

Bani Jawi adalah nama yang digelarkan oleh orang Arab silam terhadap orang Melayu. Cuma Melayu itu dapat dibahagikan kepada dua kelompok, iaitu Melayu-Proto (keturunan Heth bin Kanaan bin Ham bin Nuh a.s.) dan Melayu-Deutro (keturunan Ibrahim a.s. dari isterinya Keturah).

Orang Melayu Muslim lebih gemar dipanggil Melayu Jawi, Orang Jawi atau Bani Jawi. Suku etnik Melayu termasuklah Acheh, Mendailing, Melayu Deli, Minangkabau, Kerinchi, Riau, Palembang, Sunda, Melayu Bugis (Makasar), Jawa, Melayu Sulu, Melayu Maluku, Banjar, Melayu Campa (Kemboja) dan lain-lain. Melayu kini seolah-olah sinonim dengan Islam, ini mungkin kerana sejak zaman berzaman bangsa Melayu terkenal sebagai bangsa monotheist (percaya pada keesaan Allah – Sang Hyang Tunggal atau Dewata Mulia Raya


Ok boss..thank you for the info..best juga baca tu...:)
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby LordArtaxerxes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:56 am

airbus320 wrote:According to UMNO, if you're muslim and you have malaysian citizenship, you are "malay."

Based on that, doesn't matter kalau urang tu bugis, bajau, suluk kah....sudah kira wakil "melayu."

I think the word malay is similar to kadazan which is actually supposed to represent dusun's, sino and murut (but muruts did not agree with tun fuad stephens definition and insisted murut be separate from dusun and "sino.").

It all comes down to politics really I think. The more "malays" under the UMNO umbrella means more votes and special rights under the constitution.

Ask a west malaysian if he is jawa, or bugis and he will probably not be able to answer you because we are talking about generations and generations of "malay" who have settled in West Malaysia over 500-1000 years unlike Sabah where, the issue is very different...with a huge 1st generation and 2nd generation influx of bugis, bajau and suluk (indonesian, pakistani, etc etc) "malays" who suddenly not only class themselves as "malay" but are also eligible to now vote in the elections for UMNO.


Ok well,let just say if 1 chinese,chnge his religion to muslims.Will he represents as a melayu?
Let say michael jackson :tounge: got his "penempantan sementara" IC in Malaysia,will be be a Malay?
Malayu are melayu..Chinese are chinese and indians are indians..It doenst even care how they chnge their religion or whatsoever,they are still consider as their original race.Have u heard an Indian guy called melayu? :shakehead:

-these kind of hot topic really makes me active in this forum :clap2:
and again,critics are wellcome :thumbup1:

Cheers,
LordArtaxerxes
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:23 pm

LordArtaxerxes wrote:
airbus320 wrote:According to UMNO, if you're muslim and you have malaysian citizenship, you are "malay."

Based on that, doesn't matter kalau urang tu bugis, bajau, suluk kah....sudah kira wakil "melayu."

I think the word malay is similar to kadazan which is actually supposed to represent dusun's, sino and murut (but muruts did not agree with tun fuad stephens definition and insisted murut be separate from dusun and "sino.").

It all comes down to politics really I think. The more "malays" under the UMNO umbrella means more votes and special rights under the constitution.

Ask a west malaysian if he is jawa, or bugis and he will probably not be able to answer you because we are talking about generations and generations of "malay" who have settled in West Malaysia over 500-1000 years unlike Sabah where, the issue is very different...with a huge 1st generation and 2nd generation influx of bugis, bajau and suluk (indonesian, pakistani, etc etc) "malays" who suddenly not only class themselves as "malay" but are also eligible to now vote in the elections for UMNO.


Ok well,let just say if 1 chinese,chnge his religion to muslims.Will he represents as a melayu?
Let say michael jackson :tounge: got his "penempantan sementara" IC in Malaysia,will be be a Malay?
Malayu are melayu..Chinese are chinese and indians are indians..It doenst even care how they chnge their religion or whatsoever,they are still consider as their original race.Have u heard an Indian guy called melayu? :shakehead:

-these kind of hot topic really makes me active in this forum :clap2:
and again,critics are wellcome :thumbup1:

Cheers,
LordArtaxerxes


What do you call Mahathir?

An indian or a malay?

What do you call Badawi?

A chinese or a malay?


You tell me.

As far as I know, both recognize themselves as malay first. A person's skin color in malaysia doesn't determine if he is malay or not. His religion does.
Last edited by airbus320 on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby airbus320 » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:24 pm

satsuma wrote:untuk jawapan itu sa selitkan ini..

Bani Jawi adalah nama yang digelarkan oleh orang Arab silam terhadap orang Melayu. Cuma Melayu itu dapat dibahagikan kepada dua kelompok, iaitu Melayu-Proto (keturunan Heth bin Kanaan bin Ham bin Nuh a.s.) dan Melayu-Deutro (keturunan Ibrahim a.s. dari isterinya Keturah).

Orang Melayu Muslim lebih gemar dipanggil Melayu Jawi, Orang Jawi atau Bani Jawi. Suku etnik Melayu termasuklah Acheh, Mendailing, Melayu Deli, Minangkabau, Kerinchi, Riau, Palembang, Sunda, Melayu Bugis (Makasar), Jawa, Melayu Sulu, Melayu Maluku, Banjar, Melayu Campa (Kemboja) dan lain-lain. Melayu kini seolah-olah sinonim dengan Islam, ini mungkin kerana sejak zaman berzaman bangsa Melayu terkenal sebagai bangsa monotheist (percaya pada keesaan Allah – Sang Hyang Tunggal atau Dewata Mulia Raya


Interesting. Thanks for posting it..:)
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby encik kacang » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:26 pm

okie... itu saja lah posting sa ttg bangsa bugis.. ni.. dikatakan bangsa bugis ni banyak kawan baik :lol2: ..maksud dia hubungan relationship....

pasa PM najib bugis gowa tu...itu asal usul atuk dia...memang dia orang bugis.. :hmmm: sebab itu ada urang bugis sabah ni ada hubungan dgn orang2 kaya di johor etc... :hmmm: ..
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby LordArtaxerxes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:57 pm

@ airbus320 ,ok,lets look about Datuk Seri Mahathir's background story.
With an Indian father,migrated from southwestern India married with a Malay girl.
I think it is enough to make him as a malaysian citizen.Those bugis,Jawa,indian or whatsoever races their are,were not consider as a Melayu UNLESS they have family relatives on Malay,which are truely malay(the father,the mother,the uncle or whatsoever bullsh*t of them).

If some 1 say,"Hi,I'm jawa and I'm muslims i do have I.C. and that means I'm a malay." but both of his parent are originality from Indonesia,work here for a long time and got those f**ked up so called "penempatan sementara" I.C..What do you think of him?
That what I called exploiting other races.jawa are jawa and bugis are bugis.Its not the same.Same goes to Chinese and Indian.

Ok,i have question for you,and all of the SF forum readers.Maybe you'll say this out of topic but lets just answer it.Which 1 of these are correct.
Tunku or Tengku.
Please answer refering to your own knowledge and not based on other source.

-and for the red font,I know you understand what thats mean.
And again,critics or opinion are wellcome. :thumbup1:
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Re: BUGIS III???

Postby encik kacang » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:27 pm

berita baru sa terima....bugis di indonesia di wartakan sebagai melayu ...begitu jugak dgn bangsa jawa etc yang lain... :lol2:
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